2009.12/10


Radio Nippon presents, �gSugahara Akiko�fs EDGE TALK�h Part3
Guest is Toshio Okada

Tonight�fs guest is from our last week�fs show, Mr. Toshio Okada, who made a contribution to the decline of the population of Japanese men with metabolic syndrome with his much-loved book titled Sayonara, Mr. Fatty! A Geek�fs Diet Memoir published last year. He wrote another book Datsu Debu published by Sony Magazines Inc. for female readers explaining his know-how to lose 50kg within a year. Now, I look forward to what he�fs got to tell us today.

(Akiko Sugahara=S, Toshio Okada=T)

S: Thank you for your time today.

T: Thanks for having me as a guest.

S: Last week, we had a talk about two of your books, Sayonara, Mr. Fatty! A Geek�fs Diet Memoir and Datsu Debu and our discussion covered the first three steps of your diet method. So today, we�fll start the show explaining the next step towards the final goal of your one and a half year period of dieting. So, you started with a target calorie intake of 1500 kilocalories and �c

T: I was in the habit of managing on 1500 kilocalories a day. You might find it hard to believe this but 1500 kilocalories worth of food can be quite a lot to consume.

S: Well, I guess it can be once you get to understand the distribution of food calories.

T: Yeah if you have knowledge about calories. Before, I would consume from 3000 to 3500 calories everyday without realizing it. The thing is, I used to think that having a heavy stomach feeling was how you were supposed to feel like when your body has just had enough to eat and I also misinterpreted the feeling of wanting to nibble on something as the heavy feeling in my stomach disappeared as a sign of my body being hungry again. I really think this applies to all fat people, by which I mean those who are obese believe themselves to be hungry when in reality they have only just got enough room to fit something in their tummies. However, through the 1500 kilocalories diet method I could experience the feeling of my stomach growling for the first time in about 40 years which made me understand how it really feels to be hungry. In this way, my stomach started to return to its natural state and reset itself. There were times when I�fd eat whenever my body could handle food and as a result and just like how you can break your mobile phone battery by overcharging it, I realized my stomach was out of order and that�fs why it�fs good to have your stomach functions reset by managing your caloric intake.

S: I see�cSo you regained such basic conditions like being very hungry or full by bringing your stomach�fs way of managing itself back into line.

T: Yes, that�fs exactly what I�fm talking about. A month after experiencing your body�fs recovery, you come to understand the kind of food your brain wants and the food your body desires.

S: I beg your pardon? What have you just said? Haha.

T: I�fll give you an example then. One day I went to a cinema to watch a film. Even though I�fd usually get myself a burger or crisps there, that day I felt like eating a tomato instead for some reason.

S: What? You wanted a tomato at the cinema? You mean a tomato juice?

T: No, just one tomato. That was the time when I was in Roppongi and Roppongi is the place where you see many foreigners around, right? So I thought it�fd be cool to grab just one tomato and walk into the cinema.

S: Hahaha. You�fre a really funny man.

T: So I went to the supermarket in the basement of Roppongi Hills and bought only one tomato to watch a film there. But the tomato I ate in the cinema tasted rather good and as it entered my body through my mouth it felt like it was absorbed into my body which made me realize that my body was in need of tomatoes. That feeling was something I had never felt even in my childhood and I came to think that our feelings of hunger are something that is induced artificially.

S: Something that is fake perhaps?

T: I wouldn�ft go as far as to call it fake but I�fve been phrasing it as desire.

S: Desire, that�fs interesting.

T: And there�fs another type of hunger which I�fve named appetite.

S: You�fve categorized the sense of hunger as two different needs. So the desire is induced by our brain and makes us crave something all of a sudden.

T: Yeah it happens at times like when you�fre having a party with your friends and come to feel like having a barbeque or when watching a gourmet report on TV with the presenters showing an amazing bowl of rice topped with cooked chicken and eggs, you want it so badly. These reactions of hunger are all mental desires.

S: Amazing.

T: On the other hand, the other type of hunger which is appetite takes place when you feel something is so good that you feel as though your body absorbs the food even though it�fs not your favourite thing to eat. For example, finding pickled food or seasonal vegetables like cucumbers tastier than you normally would.

S: We probably get old even before we�fve learned to tell the two apart. I�fm not sure which of these two feelings of hunger needs to be listened to more but I�fve got a feeling that most of the time we are controlled by the desire.

T: In order to be able to tell them apart, we need to spend approximately one month with our stomachs empty or half full which helps your body to recover gradually.

S: If we fast, it would leave us with an empty stomach and that way we would really learn to appreciate how ordinary food like a mere bowl of miso soup or rice porridge can be so delicious that it moves you to tears and it�fs not the same appreciation of food that you might experience at a full-course dinner but it�fs a genuine awakening to realise the pleasure of simple and plain food.

T: Yeah, I agree with what you�fre saying.

S: Did what I say make sense to you then?

T: Yes, perfectly. We don�ft realise how tasty the food we normally eat actually is unless we�fre really hungry. In reality, the feeling of an empty stomach is actually quite nice. When I got really hungry, I would think that I needed to eat something, but in truth 1500 kilocalories is enough for us to live on and you also feel able to ignore the sensation of hunger because you think to yourself that it will get even stronger in another two hours or so, so you tend to put it out of your mind and that�fs quite a nice feeling to be able to do that.

S: Yeah and I think that what you�fve just described is a pitfall that many people today in our modern society come across. They think that if they don�ft take some kind of sustenance on board, they�fll start to starve. This is a big mistake. If we think about people in the olden days, they would have only a small snack guided by their stomach clock and they�fd work really hard for a long time and even when they got hungry, they wouldn�ft eat until it was time to do so and put up with an empty stomach. So what you�fve been describing is the feeling of growling hunger and satisfaction that Japanese people before the 1960�fs would have had. Back in the day, people used to hear the rumbling stomach of the person next door quite often.

T: I know what you mean. During my days as a fat person, I used to have a way of thinking where I thought not eating when I can is a total loss.

S: Oh, did you?

T: Yeah. For example, when I got something from someone like sweets, I thought I�fd miss out on something if I didn�ft eat as much cake or whatever as I could or if I was confronted with four different types of food, I�fd feel compelled to have all of them and in this way, I kept gaining weight. However when you limit yourself to a total of 1500 kilocalories for the day, you start to think that it�fs a mistake or loss if you eat such things. So when you�fre at a buffet, you don�ft feel that you need to have everything. When you�fve got 1500 kilocalories to use, if you have everything, it�fs a waste, so you feel that you only want to eat the really nice things. When you feel like some chocolate, you won�ft go for the cheap stuff you can easily get at a convenience store, you�fll want to push the boat out and go for something like Godiva chocolate, even just to have one piece and enjoy it.

S: I think that�fs a way to satisfy your desire in the best way.

T: So being on a diet for me was not a grim thing about self-denial or a pitiful thing but rather something of a luxury. I felt like I was eating as much as I wanted like a king.

S: In practical terms, when you�fre eating less, then you can splash out a bit on high-calorie food. Usually if you are eating three meals a day and you think in terms of breakfast, lunch and dinner, if you scrimp on two of those then you�fll have about a 1000 calories left to play with for dinner or 2500 calories if you�fre eating more.

T: Yeah, that�fs exactly it. Also, the size of my tummy shrank. I used to wear 5 L clothes but now I�fm down to a medium and you save a lot of money on clothes. I ended up spending less than a tenth of what I used to on clothes. This money is then freed up for nice food. In addition, I became able to eat fruit every day.

Radio Nippon presents, �gSugahara Akiko�fs EDGE TALK�h Part4
Guest is Toshio Okada

S: So what you�fve been saying is by listening to what your body is really saying, depending on the day, you might find that your body wants tomatoes or pickled food or small fish�c

T: And even cake on some days.

S: And what�fs important is not to deny this desire but to really listen to it. If your body says it wants cake, then it�fs best to give it something of high quality. I believe that high quality foods will do more to satisfy your desire. You don�ft need to eat loads, if it�fs really something that�fs nice then just a little should be enough to satisfy you.

T: With cheap cakes, you have about four or five mouthfuls and then you think to yourself that maybe it�fs a bit too sweet even before feeling full. However if you have something that�fs really nice, after about three mouthful, this wonderful taste will explode in your mouth and by the fourth mouthful, you�fre thinking to yourself how nice it is and then you stop eating. So we find that even though we�fre eating very high quality cake, we�fre not actually taking in that many calories. If you can keep going like this for a month, you�fll find that the money that you spend on food and treat drops dramatically even though you�fre eating far more expensive things.

S: You�fre satisfying both your desire and appetite by doing so which produces a feeling of happiness.

T: And it helps you to lose weight. What�fs more, lately my daughter tells me that I�fm looking a lot better.

S: Wow. That must make you feel happy.

T: In fact, she said that to me yesterday and I�fve been over the moon since.

S: Your brain must be functioning better as your circulation must have improved. Don�ft you think so?

T: I don�ft know really. In terms of thinking about things, I don�ft think there�fs been much change. I�fm a geek and I like animation and comics and staying up late at night and also hate exercise. Who you are as a person doesn�ft change but your appearance does and that has a huge effect on the way others view you. Everything start working better it seems.

S: I think I know what you mean. I also lost a lot of weight a while ago and have been thrilled despite my age as people have told me that I look younger.

T: Exactly, when you start doing something new or move in a new direction, you do regain a bit of youth.

S: You start to choose different kinds of clothes and so on, don�ft you?

T: You�fre no longer scared of stepping into a clothes shop.

S: Your choice becomes wider, doesn�ft it? If your clothes change, even though it has nothing to do with other people, you can find a little bit of joy for yourself. I take it that you�fre experiencing new things like that.

T: I now enjoy clothes shopping. It�fs fun to try things and see what does and doesn�ft suit me. With the inquisitive spirit of a geek, I�fve been enjoying theorizing about fashion.

S: What do you mean by theorizing?

T: For example, the more people reduce the number of colours that they wear, the better they look. Those who have been putting their hearts into looking good since they were children are probably OK with 8 or 10 colours. However even those who aren�ft so fashion-minded can look good if they get down to about 7 or 8 colours including the colours of their body. I myself changed my hair colour to brown to match the colour of my eyes.

S: Was your hair black before then?

T: Yes. The colours of my natural hair and eyes are different and so having the colours of my hair and eyes the same colour helps me to have one less colour on my body and sticking to brown when wearing clothes helps me look good. I actually ditched all of my clothes that were black or white.

S: Oh really?

T: Yeah I didn�ft see much point in keeping them as they were too big for me to wear anyway. Also, a colour coordinator told me that I�fd look best in autumn colours. Basically what happened was, before doing clothes shopping, I paid 30,000 yen to hire a colour coordinator whose fashion advice for me was to stick to the colours in the colour chart she showed me. So I didn�ft doubt what she told me at all and I took the colour chart to the clothes shops I went to and asked if they had colours like that. I had always thought that being stylish was difficult but discovering that even people who have no particular sense for fashion can get it right if they use a certain method has been incredibly interesting for me.

S: You�fve got the title for your next book right there.

T: A title like Don�ft think of yourself as shabby . haha.

S: I think those who have an inquisitive nature and can theorize are really clever.

T: We go through the stages of defining a problem, collecting data, an experiment, hypothesizing and experimenting again and finally finding proof.

S: Finding proof comes last yeah. And this is very much the same way that you developed your diet, isn�ft it?

T: Yes, it is.

S: So your diet is logical and detailed in a way yet based upon a theory. Having both really gives a lot of weight to your ideas.

T: Thank you very much. I tidied my room after I lost the weight and did that in the same way too. Over several months I just made lists of things in my room. Instead of just throwing things away, after several months I grew to understand what I didn�ft need and I was able to get rid of many things in one fell swoop and now I�fm really on top of the cleaning in my house. It�fs a lovely feeling.

S: So the activity of lining things up and comparing which you�fve just mentioned�c

T: So you spend time recording everything and then you gain an understanding of the situation. From this point, you can decide how you want to move forwards and this works for saving money, studying for exams or keeping your house clean.

S: When you pick things up and list them and compare them, you get an idea of what to keep and what is to throw away along with an idea of what�fs important to hang onto. You come to understand many things like that. This is a basic thing but it�fs something that has always been difficult for Japanese people. With Western people, they call each other stupid if they don�ft approach things in this way. They feel that you have to go about your work in this manner.

T: Yeah, I mean, Japanese people are so smart so instead of listing things up, they just go about it however they think best like when dealing with fashion. So for those who don�ft have that kind of sense then all there is for them to do is to stand by and jealously look upon those who have good judgment. However even if you�fre not blessed with good sense like me, you can still do many things by listing things up or seriously trying to write everything down. This is what I�fve discovered from my diet.

S: What you�fve been saying is that those basic actions such as using your senses and experiences and logic as well as making lists can work well in many situations and it�fs great that you�fve learned to apply those skills to other areas. You can keep things tidy and�c.

T: It�fs also good for saving money and for time management. At one time, I was writing down everything I had down every 15 minutes and you understand where time is being wasted. In my case, I discovered that I used to waste ten hours a day playing around on the internet. Haha.

S: Well, but the time must have been spent on your work.

T: But I could finish the same job on which I used to spend ten hours on within an hour and half so 8 hours and half was freed up every day which made me really happy.

S: Wow, that�fs great. Maybe I should give it a try as well. I myself am also an intuitive person and I feel like I want to manage my time so efficiently�c..

T: Writing down what you�fve done every 15 minutes does make a difference. Just make a habit of writing four lines every hour and you�fll be shocked at how much time you�fve been wasting.

S: I see what you mean. There are many things I think could be handled win a shorter period of time.

T: All you need to do is to stop being lazy.

S: And the amount of time created by cutting down the time used for other things can then be used more productively.

T: You should spend it on something you like. Not just lazing around.

S: That would allow you to be creative wouldn�ft it? This way of doing things opens up many possibilities for the future.

T: And that�fs the recording method, yes.

S: I�fm already looking forward to your next book.

T: Rather than doing something like this by focusing on concepts, it�fs best to do something tangible like a diet to get the idea. So head along to a bookshop and grab a copy of Datsu Debu!

S: Especially good for the ladies, yes. Thank you.

T: Thank you.

Translation by Yuka Yamashita